Mongolia with Steve French

Today, we're sitting down with local adventurer Steve French. With his company Pack, Pedal, and Ski, Steve has ventured where few travelers dare to go – across the rugged terrain of Mongolia on horseback, embracing the nomadic life alongside the locals. He shares real challenges of navigating this remote landscape, unique bonds formed with both the people and the half-wild horses. Sit back and listen to Steve tell us why this ancient land's culture and horsemanship left such a lasting impression on him. Because, you’re listening to Rochester Trail Riders.

Lindsay: Today we're back at Easton's, we're up in what we like to call the living room, which is not quite a living room anymore, but we're here today with a local guy, Steve French. How you doing today, Steve? 

Steve: I'm doing great, thanks.

Lindsay: Are you loving this? I am, this is fun.

Steve actually, and his brother from what I understand, have a company called Pack, Pedal, and Ski. Correct. And you guys do some wild things. When we were stuck in a trailer together, or truck I should say, for like two hours driving to a horse show, you got to telling me something along the lines of, You've been to Mongolia.

And I went, Er, time out, I need this story, and I need to ask so many more questions than the short time that we had together in a truck. So, tell me a little about Pac Petalinski and how you guys even got to the point of saying let's even get to Mongolia. 

Steve: So, my brother Rick runs it primarily now, and they take trips all around the world.

He just got back from New Zealand. Spending a month in New Zealand and the reason and it's, there's a site packpaddleski. com, you can check it out I'm going to Norway next year skiing so that's a summer trip. Good Frisians out there. Oh yeah, so my goal is to ride horses on every continent, so that's, that's one of my goals in life.

I don't know about Antarctica, but the reason Mongolia came about. I love horses, always have. Ever since I was a little kid, I actually started riding lessons with Mike Kelly over in Geneseo when I was a little tyke. And fell in love with it, and then got older and didn't do it for a long time. And then my neighbors got horses that they didn't ride, and I started riding their horses.

But Mongolia came about because I've always, ever since I could ride, I've always read anything I could. I collected Rawhide Kid comic books, I read westerns, Louis L'Amour, I own every book he's ever written, and I've read tons of things about the Mongolians and how expert horsemen they 

Lindsay: are. I've seen a bunch of documentaries and it Fascinates me on what their horsemanship skills and what we try to do and how easy it seems to come to them.

Steve: We, we can't even compare. I, they, they live it. We go out to the barn, tack up our horse, go for a ride, put our horse away. They, they live it. They have this one town called Tesseling. They have three boys that are 15, 16 years old. And when it becomes wintertime, they take all the horses from the town. So over a thousand horses.

Out into the steps and they set up a teepee and every three days they have to move the teepee because they graze all the all the grass down and it's minus 30 minus 40 degrees. They lose a lot of horses unfortunately. So the winners can be super, super harsh on the horses. When you look at the history of Mongols and writing, and it's, it's their culture, and it's, it's an amazing place.

Lindsay: So, for folks that are not familiar, really, like, we, like, go Mongolia, but, like, China, China's a big place. Give us a little geographic footprint on where you were. 

Steve: Okay, so, if you look at Mongolia on a map, you'll find Russia on the top. Kazakhstan on the western side and China down below it. So they're kind of sandwiched in between all those countries.

And they, up until I believe 1986, it was one of the only communist countries that went back to a democracy without a war. Oh wow, I did not know that. Yeah, as recently as 1986, they were a communist country ruled by Pretty much China. Wow. And they also, one of the issues that they're facing now, they've got unbelievable land.

So 80 percent of the people roughly live in the cities. The rest live out in the steppes. So you've got huge concentrations of people and then nobody. And it, they still live nomadic, not as much as they used to. A lot of them in the summertime will set up their ger, which is like a round hut, like a yurt.

And they'll travel with their animals and they go up the valleys. And there's no. The concept of private land, like it exists here, doesn't exist there. So they have valleys, like your family might be up one valley. Yep. My family might be up the other valley. And they, they're just nomadic. And so for me, to experience that firsthand was incredible.

Without even the horsemanship. But to throw the horses in there was, was even better. So I've been over there twice now., Central Mongolia is, mostly Buddhist, so in Central Mongolia, we rode there, and then the second time I went back, they had eagle hunters in, right near Kazakhstan in the northwestern corner.

They have the eagle hunters, and there's about 300 of them, and there's been a movie made with the first girl that became the eagle hunter. Yep. I can't remember the name of it offhand, but the town is Sakzai, and they are Muslim, and most of them are from Kazakh. And so it's very, very interesting because the Mongolians, the first time we went over, the horses were what I would consider half wild.

So I'm a pretty good horseman. I've ridden a long time. And when we went over, we looked at everything from the saddles, which are basically two pieces of wood with a rebar on the front and the back, and then a motorcycle seat, like a real motorcycle seat, on there, and then they tie it down with some carpet.

Oh my gosh. So that was the seat, and it was incredibly uncomfortable. 

Lindsay: Yeah, they ride miles in those. 

Steve: Oh, it's incredible how far they ride. And so those horses, I had a good horse. So by the end of the three weeks we were riding, I could get on and off that horse without assistance. But the first week, first week and a half, they're like, don't get off the horse.

We'll hold the horse when you get on, we'll hold the horse when you get off. Don't take your, your raincoat off because they're not used to raincoats. So,

Lindsay: they're pretty feral still. They're pretty feral. You're just lucky to be on there. 

Steve: Yes, exactly. So, a really funny story real quick is, my horse was really good and Rick had one that was, it was a different, a little bit different of a breed, it looked a little different, acted a little different, and so one day, I took my, it was really hot, and I took my raincoat off, I unzipped it, which they tell you not to, and I took it off, and I put it in my thing, and my brother Rick looks over at me and he says, Hey!

What? I said, just unzip your coat and take it off. So he started to do that, and if you can picture in your mind, he's got his coat halfway off, his thing, his arm in the sleeve, and the horse took off. Oh dear. So, it wasn't bucking, it just took off. Bolted. So, he literally rode out of sight, and galloped away, probably a mile, mile and a half, just disappeared.

So, the guide, Shidre, who doesn't speak any English, chases him. And brought him back to the group, finally, finally caught him, the horse stopped, and, and they finally caught him and brought him back. And all Shidre did was walk around to us, and he just wiggled his finger and he's like, No, no, no. So that was the last time my brother tried to take that jacket off while he was riding.

They grow up on horses, they, you know, there were kids that go out at, they're eight, nine years old, and they go out and they watch the goats, they watch the herds, and they can't even get in the saddle. They literally throw them on the horse and the, the kid goes out and watches the animals. If he jumps off, he has to find some way to get back on whether crawling up, crawling on these, you know, and they're, and they're half wild horses.

And the difference, it was interesting when we went up to the eagle hunters. So in central Mongolia, they don't name their horses. So there's no names for the horses because they don't believe in that. But when you go, 

Lindsay: it's kind of like ownership kind of thing.

Steve: Yeah, it's like they have a spirit they have, you know But they don't name them when you go and they also don't put shoes on their horses because the ground there it's It's like step so it's not real rough So the horses have really hardy feet because they that's how they live and the ones with weak feet don't make it

Lindsay: They're practically a wild animal at that point.

Exactly, right The horses out west here don't need shoes. 

Steve: No, exactly. It's like a Mustang, right? So, the Kazakhs, when you go up in the northwest corner, they're up in the hills and the mountains. They, for the first five years, don't put shoes on their horses. And then after five years, they'll put them on the fronts.

Only fronts. Because they're digging around and going through. And, so, both times, the first time we went over, we did like 150 miles on horseback. In like, you know, we're doing 10 15 miles a day. And then. On that rough saddle. On that rough saddle. I had a, I had a rash where the rebar hit me on the rump. And I was, we actually found some sheepskin or wool that was lying that some animal had lost.

And I actually grabbed it and made it like a little sack and I put it between my my rear end and you know and I just sat on that and that worked out great. Where's your moleskin at this point? That's exactly right. You want the moleskin. But the so then what I did, we did the second time we went back, we did a pack raft trip.

and a horseback trip. So we did 180 miles in a packraft and 200 in horseback. And we went, we rode all the way up into, there's a glacier, and it's the highest point in Mongolia, and we rode up to that, and then we hiked up a little bit, and we were bordered right with Russia. So I walked all the way to where the border would be for Russia and then came back down.

And we brought Western saddles back for your second time? I said, we're bringing saddles this time. And so we brought a mix of English saddles, Western saddles 

Lindsay: How, how big are the horses?

Steve: They're, they're skinny. First of all you know, they don't, I mean, they're eating their nomadic.

So they, depending on how the winter was, you, you get some really good horses and some ones that are really skinny. I would say the biggest horses were maybe 13 and a half hands. If, if it was 14, that was big. Wow. But there were some that were a little stockier. We had some taller, bigger people.

They rode those, but the horses, I mean, they're used to going, going, going. And, the, the interesting thing, one of the other reasons that it's amazing there is, you get on the horse in the morning, and it's not like a trail ride here. So a trail ride here, you know, you go like, nose to tail, you walk, you can't canter, you can't gallop.

 What I would do, once they realize you can ride, is, I would let the group get way ahead of me. And I would go off to the right, exploring, I'd go, you know, a mile that way. And then I would literally canter or gallop for two or three miles to catch up.

Lindsay: in my head, from documentaries and everything I've seen, I'm thinking open, wide, grasslands.

If it's wintertime, they're fairly desolate looking. 

Steve: Yes. Is that what That's, that's a pretty good So, we rode right from the town of Tetzeling, and we went up north. So the further north you got up, the more wooded it became. But they still use wood for in their stoves and that kind of thing. So, wood is scarce.

But it's more like, like a step, right? When you picture in your mind, and it's open. And you can see forever. And you can ride any direction you want. And you just ride. And nobody says no, don't go there. You know, and, and there was, there was a moment, cause I'd always dreamed about going. And so, there was this one day I remember, my brother and everybody went way ahead.

And I just let him go way ahead. And I was just wandering around. And then I just started galloping. And even thinking about it now, I started crying. And I'm catching up, I'm catching up, and I'm like, oh my god, I gotta stop crying before, before I catch my everybody, right? Because I'm gonna look like such a fool.

And my brother rides back to see what was going on, because I was so far back. And I'm crying, and he says, what are you crying for? And I'm like, I'm so happy! And it was just one of those moments that, you know, it's just 

Lindsay: You get a taste of that life. It's amazing. It's a hard life, but it's so fun. It's gotta be just 

Steve: freeing.

Oh, it's incredible. It's just as liberal as possible. 

Lindsay: I have a question for you. If somebody were to have this dream, obviously by your reaction I'm thinking the answer is yes. Today's day and age, would you still encourage people to take this trip? 

Steve: Absolutely. Politically, it's a great country. Once you get there, it's a great country.

We've used the same guide multiple times now. He speaks five languages, you know, Russian, Kazakh his regular Mongolian language, Tovan, which is another sect of people that live there. So he speaks a lot of these different languages and English. And you know, so we feel super comfortable with him and traveling with him.

And we've now gone twice to our eagle friends in Saksay. And so we're getting to be good friends. I mean, I talk well, they don't speak very good English. So we used Google translate a lot, but I keep in touch with those guys. Sultan just had his birthday. And the second trip with the Kazakhs, we actually took camels with us as well.

So camels carried all our gear and we rode the horses. And that was amazing to see how much a camel can carry. 

Lindsay: How long of a trip are you guys out there for? Like, what's your length of stay?

Steve: When you go that far around the world, And you, you travel that far and you pay that much for, let's say $2,000 for air airfare just alone.

Air, right? 16 to 2000. 1600 to 2000. You don't want to come home in a week, right? And it's not long enough to get acclimated. So our actual trip from start to finish is almost three weeks. Our actual time on the actual trek is about two to two and a half weeks. You spend maybe a day in UL Batar, which is the capital at both ends.

And then another day like in SACSI or the villages. So you're spending two or three days at either end. And then the bulk of the trip is really, you know, what you're there for. And it's, you, you want to go for an extended period of time. 

Lindsay: What other than passport will travel and getting yourself a flight, what other preparations did you have to do?

Steve: So I'm trying to think of vaccinations. So there are some vacu vaccinations they recommend. I can't remember off the top of my head, but I'd already had them for other trips. So, I think like hepatitis B tetanus, which everybody gets anyway and there were maybe one or two others, but other than that, we just took, you know, general, our first aid kit was general antibiotics, you know, that you would take anywhere you go.

We treated all our water, so we have a SteriPen, which is ultralight, and you just stick it in your, your Nalgene bottle, and, you know, you drink it. 

Lindsay: What do you guys do for food while you're out there? 

Steve: We figure out it's it's again. It's because it's nomadic. It's an amazing amazing place every night what would happen when we were traveling we would try to find a gir we would stay with a family so we had tents we would stay in a tent That welcoming where you just oh you just you just show up and so you can't pay them money Because that's an insult because in a nomadic right if you have something that I need you should share it with me Because maybe down the road you're gonna come through where I live and you're gonna need something like one day We didn't have much food and there there's a big festival over there.

That's called not a man's wrestling It's a big thing archery mounted archery and horses. That's their big big big stuff so the not a festival was going on and people were leaving people leaving the cars and and we just flagged down a bunch of cars and they gave us all their leftover food Oh, we're like, hey, do you have any food and they're like, yeah here Or they even offered it.

You didn't even have to ask. And so what we did, when we were in, like, Saksay, we knew we were going to be out for 10 days. Until we got to, like, what, it wasn't really a store, but it was a place where you could buy supplies. And so we, a lot of noodles a lot of, a lot of meat. If you're going to Mongolia.

A vegetarian's not for you? A vegetarian is, it's very hard if you're a vegetarian. If you're a vegetarian, you should bring your own food. Let's put it that way. Because a lot of those, it's just meat and potatoes. And the way they cook it is really interesting. In the Gurs, they have a fire in the middle, and they put this monster pot on, and they heat up rocks, and they drop the rocks in the pot that's boiling, so the, the rocks help the water boil, and then they throw everything in, it just simmers, like a, you know, on the stove all day.

And then, at the end, they pull the rocks out, and then they serve everybody, you know, your noodles, and, and their fresh noodles that they make right in front of you. It's it's a pretty amazing culture. 

Lindsay: I like the rock idea I wonder does that just keep the heat longer so you don't have to have as hot a fire, right?

Steve: I think so. Yeah, because woods very scarce. Yeah, so if you heat up the rocks and throw them in there, it's less energy I think so. All right, that makes sense, but it works as long as you don't eat the rock. You're good 

Lindsay: Another thing that I couldn't help but notice from one of the documentaries I was watching for his Fermented mare's milk.

Steve: Oh my gosh. So yeah, so they tell you there's a couple things you should not do when you're over there. And one of them is don't drink the fermented mare's milk because it carries a lot of whatever in it, right? But, when in Rome, I had fermented milk and I loved it. I figured I'll be sick when I get home.

I'll be sick by the time I get home. I'm not gonna worry about it. Also you saved it for like the end. That's right. So, when you're going down the road, they've got these little, you know, plastic Coke bottles, and it's all fermented mare's milk. And, I'm like, yeah, I'm, I'm so trying that. And, I tried it, and it was, it was an interesting flavor.

It was like you think it would be, like it, it's not very potent. , even though it's fermented, it's, it's like, it's, it's, what's that stuff?

Lindsay: Apparently not, it's apparently not enough fermented to kill whatever's in it. 

Steve: No, definitely not. Yeah, definitely not. Now, they also make a, like a, like a vodka. It's a clear off of the yogurt.

Oh, interesting. So, they have the big pot on the stove again, and they make like a little still that comes off the top of it, and it drips and drips and drips, and it's super clear. Again, not very strong. But what happens when you come into their house, you, you step into the ger and everybody sits around and you sit by order of age.

And so what they do is they, they fill the cup up and they go, I think it's left to right. I can't remember in my head, but I think it's left to right from oldest to youngest. And they go around three times because that's one of their traditions. It's a number, right? So everybody goes around. You don't really have to drink it if you don't want to.

You can just, you know, put it up to your lips. And pretend you're drinking it, but they send it around, and after everybody takes a sip, he puts more in it, and as you go around, everybody gets a sip, and they do it three times. So the first time, he hands a cup to everybody. The second time, you pass it around, and then the third time, you pass it around as well.

He'll fill it up if it gets empty. So it's kind of a neat, you know, tradition, and that was our welcoming. And they have crackers, like you would get anywhere else, crackers and cookies that are in these, you know, packages that they get. It's pretty funny. 

Lindsay: What is a typical day, sun up to sun down for you guys?

Steve: Let's say I told you I was going to meet you here tonight at 5. Yeah. You would expect me to be here at 5. Or maybe a little before. 

Lindsay: Somewhere in that range. Somewhere in that range. Give or take 10 minutes.

Steve: Give or take 10 minutes. It's not that way in Mongolia. Rick might say, okay, we're gonna get up and have breakfast at 8.

So everybody gets up, they take their things down, 8 o'clock, you know, the, the, the guys that are doing the horses are just rolling out of their beds. The head, the head guy went off because the horse took off last night, so he's off trying to find the horse that took off to run home. And maybe around 10 o'clock, they're starting to saddle the horses up and you're eating breakfast.

And if you're lucky By 10, 1030, you're actually on the horse going somewhere. The only day that, and so you ride, so we would ride, I don't know, two or three hours. Crossing rivers. You know, and just trotting around. Mostly walked, most of the people walked. I would canter and gallop and do things. But most of the people just either trotted or just walked.

But, maybe two hours later you took a break. Got off the horses, went to the bathroom. Ride for another hour. And then we would have lunch. So they make a really strong, they dry it on these racks. If you look at pictures of Mongolia, you'll see these. It's yak cheese, and it's just It's like a hybrid cow.

It's like a cross between a yak and a cow. They're really weird looking. And they, they use it for everything. That's their cheese. That's their meat. That's everything. And so, they'll put the cheese up to dry and it's super super hard and it'll last forever. Hard cheese. Hard cheese. So what I would do. Yeah, exactly.

So what I would do is I would put a chunk in my pocket, like a pretty good sized chunk, and riding the horse it was a ton of energy because it's super concentrated. So you put it in your mouth you kind of broke it. Because you didn't want to bite it because it's so hard. Oh my. And you would put it in your mouth and it would just kind of dissolve.

But it gave you a lot of energy. So I ate that all day. And it was like a, it was a fermented kind of cheese. And they had a couple different kinds of cheese. But that was like the most popular kind of cheese. And we ate that and then around 4 or 5 in the afternoon, you'd try to find a ger. And, you know, you would camp there.

And what we brought over, we brought, the first time we brought 50 Leathermans. You know, the multi tool. Oh yeah, the multi tools, yeah. And, because, if you pay them, they're insulted. But you can always leave a gift. One of the ways that you would do that, we would leave a Leatherman for them. We would make a ceremony in the morning, not a ceremony, but we'd make everybody get together, and we would give the knife.

And, the other thing that we did is, if people in the, in the little tiny gurus had crafts, so they make hats, they make clothing, gloves, everything. So, when we were the Eagle Hunters I was actually in, I actually rolled the Eagle Hunter's horse, which is pretty special because he had never let anybody ride his horse.

So when I went over, I knew I brought over a bunch of extra bridles, and I found some really fancy silver bits and different stuff, so I presented those to him. But I have a hat that's fox fur that his Eagle killed the fox. Oh, wow. And then his wife made the hat and then I bought the hat. 

Lindsay: So is that how they actually, 

Steve: that's how they make money, right?

Yeah. They do a lot of herding and they'll sell, they'll sell their horses back and forth, that kind of thing. But typically the herders, that's how they make money. They'll do clothing. The Eagle hunters make clothing and sell it really beautiful. They also do a lot of rugs. You'll get really beautiful, beautiful felt rugs.

You know, I have one, I have one at my house. It's, I I love it. It's so soft. And so they do a lot of crafts kind of stuff, and that's their, they, they don't live very expensively. They do have some solar in their gus. They'll have like a solar with a battery. They have a light. Some of 'em have a TV that runs off.

You know, they have like a big dish, you go up to this grr in the middle of nowhere. 

Lindsay: How long do they normally keep a grr up? 

Steve: They move pretty frequently, so they'll go into an area, especially in the summer, and once the area has been grazed, they move. So it might be Four to six weeks? Yeah, probably about four to six weeks, and then they move.

And it's very quick. And if you go by, like we stopped, there was a family taking it down, and it's polite to stop and help. 

Lindsay: That's a lot of work, I'd imagine, because they're, they're a decent size, they're like, they're a yurt, they're big. 

Steve: Yeah, and there's an inside wall, there's an outside wall um, there's all the furniture, so we helped them load it up.

 They loaded it into a combination of a big Russian truck and then, like, ox cart kind of thing that the horses pulled. And so it, they, they've gone to, unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your point of view, they're starting to do herding more and more on motorcycles. Interesting. Because they're, they're quicker, they're faster, you get out, you don't have to catch it, you don't have to get bucked off, right?

 The culture's switching a little bit but for me, just to experience the way that people have lived for, you know, a long time.

Lindsay: What, what's the path, like, do you guys do a big loop and then come back down to your original starting point? Do you have like a destination that you're aiming for, or?

Steve: Yeah, so the first, first trip we did, we did a loop. So we went around, we did 200 miles. You know, we went way up north, into the trees, into the forest, there's a place called Blue Lake, it's beautiful, super sacred, and so we did a, we went up, and then we came back a different way. The second time, we, what did we do?

We, we did a circle there, but when we looked at a map, we didn't think we could get through the mountains. And the guides were like, oh no, no, no, no, we can get through, we can get through, and we're like, have you ever been there? No, no, but we can get through. We did get through Lewis and Clark your way through.

 We believed them and it was up and over, but it was a beautiful Valley that we came out and it was flowers. It was, it was gorgeous. And it was, it was amazing. What time of year are you so we went in our, so Jill, I think we went mostly in July, July or August. It was hot. Okay. But it also, you know, I mean, I had a down jacket on.

Many nights it gets chilly at night. 

Lindsay: It's kind of desert, even though it's plain, so it's high desert.

Steve: High desert is the best way to describe it. And it gets cold. And whatever you believe about global warming, part of the problem is the camels that they have. Because they're, you know, in the Gobi Desert, which gets really cold.

The, the camels are having a harder time because it's staying warmer longer and not getting as cold. So they're struggling. 

Lindsay: What did you see about environmental impacts? 

Steve: Right. So, one of the environmental impacts is that a lot of the camel guys There's not as much work for them as much anymore, so the herds are smaller, and they also the winters are not as harsh anymore, so they're, they're having a hard time because they're well adapted for cold, believe me.

I, I never thought of a camel being 

Lindsay: Those are the ones, like, furry, I've seen them before where they're like trudging through. Oh, they're, yeah. Because they're like a Russian kind of camel. 

Steve: Yes, yes, so if you look at them, they've got real, and they're the same thing, they live halfway wild until you catch them.

So they're, they're, it's, it's pretty amazing. I mean, if you close your eyes and try to picture it, it's hard, but you know, every time I think about being there. What am I, what are my future goals? Hopefully there's a population of people called they're called the reindeer people. You could look it up on, you know, Google or not Google or YouTube and there's only about 300 of them left and there used to be in the thousands and they live way way up almost on the Russian border and Everything they do they ride the reindeer their reindeer herds.

They eat the reindeer. They survive off the reindeer big animals They're they're not big animals, but what's been happening there? They used to have herds of tens of thousands and so they used to trade so it's just genetics, right? Just like it is anywhere else So their genetic pool is getting smaller and smaller.

So the reindeer are getting smaller and they're getting more sickly. And there's only about 300 of these people left. And part of the problem is when they have kids, all the kids want to go to the city because it's a harsh life, as you can imagine, even further North. It's even worse, right? Because it's cold, you know, say nine months out of the year.

So, one of my future trips at Fingers Cross is I want to go with the guide and each get two horses each and just ride for a month and go up and see the reindeer people and ride back. That's, I'm hoping 20, what's this 2024? 2026 is what I'm hoping to do that. So stay tuned.

Lindsay: Oh my gosh, you just make me want to go there and I'm just going, I am so tall. 

Steve: You'd fit. We'd find your horse. We could find your horse. We had, I'd be walking the horse. No, no. We had, we had people that were pretty tall and you look silly, but the horses they're made. They go like if they were on a trip, they'll go 50 to 70 kilometers all day long.

And when you watch like the Mongolian Derby, right, which I've seen it. Yeah. So they're riding those horses a long ways. And they just, they're going. Just cruising along. Oh, that's awesome. And I, I cantered, I think, for three or four miles, and my horse didn't, hadn't even broken a sweat. 

Lindsay: Alright, how is the gait?

Because I've been on a bazillion different things. You and I were talking the difference between trail horse and carriage horse and how I'm having a miserable time with my carriage horse on the trail. 

Steve: Right. So, it's just, so even though they're the same breeding, more or less, there's a lot of difference in gaits.

 I was lucky both times that I had a really, really nice horse and it's more like riding a pony. So it's a little quicker, short and quick. But it's comfortable. And they have this trot and the way the Mongolians ride, if you watch, they have longer or shorter stirrups and they kind of stand.

Yeah, 

Lindsay: they seem to like They don't sit. They're perched up there.

Steve: Yeah, they're perched. That's a good way to put it. They're perched on top. And so they're not sitting a lot like we sit. And 

Lindsay: I, I'm always kind of curious about their choice of saddle and how they sit and how high they sit. And if with a big plane, does that give them a better viewpoint?

Like, what's the purpose of being up there? 

Steve: I have no idea. I, it's just the way that their saddles, I, I think for practical purposes of it's wood, right? It's just a wooden, you know, it's not leather because leather deteriorates quickly. Especially, especially in the weather. And crazy weather. So I think it's probably practical.

And then what they do, there's certain areas we didn't go, but they'll round up their horses. They have these long sticks, like, I mean, like 10 foot long stick with a rope on the end. And so instead of a, a lasso. They get it with these sticks. So they're leaning forward and reaching out and grabbing the horse.

Yeah. And where I was in Mongolia, he, he actually roped the horses with a rope. And so it's different parts of Mongolia. 

Lindsay: Believe it or not, roping is a very Spanish, Western. Right. You know, kind of thing. And believe it, the sticks, like, they use that in Africa, too, to catch a lot of things. Yes. So it's an interesting change of how people.

Steve: And even in Mongolia, from end to end, it's so different. Even, even the way they treat their horses is totally different. 

Lindsay: If you have a wood saddle, how are they protecting the horses back, or do they 

Steve: So, that's interesting as well. So when we got there, this is one of the things that, they didn't realize, well they knew there was going to be that many of us, but we got there, and they didn't have saddles, so they had to go find some more saddles, so they, they scared up like two English saddles that were pretty much falling apart, had no girth.

So they took the plastic that Maybe is around hay bales and they make a probably eight cord weave So they they braid it together in eight cord weave and that's the girth and they put it around and they tie it So that's your girth. 

Lindsay: You better have good center of gravity 

Steve: Exactly, right and we didn't lose any of them surprising.

They tighten it pretty pretty it's pretty tight So they have you know that and then What they were doing is they were just plopping the saddles on And the, the, the guides and the horse people that were there with their own horses, they had pads, but not like we have pads. So what we ended up doing is we ended up putting towels under there.

We I'm like that horse, you can't just put that saddle on that horse like that. So they, 

Lindsay: so what you're saying is your next time you should just bring a whole 

Steve: bunch of saddle pads as a gift. So when we go over, right, we went over this last time. The second time is I sent over another saddle. We took a bunch of English saddles, and we took two or three Western saddles, and then we took saddlebags, and I left everything over there, including my boots when I came back.

, at the end of your trek, what you do is you sit around with everybody that was on the trip, and there's a hierarchy just like everywhere else, right? So, what we did to make it so they figure out the hierarchy, anything you want to donate, anything you want to leave, you just put in a pile, and they divide it.

 Then you don't have to worry about it. But if there was something special, like I found this really beautiful knife when I was there. I'm, I'm a big fan of wherever anybody's camped. I don't care where it is. I always go and look where people have camped. And so I was riding and I found this beautiful horn made handle knife and one of the assistant horse guys.

He was eyeing it, and I kept using it every time I saw him, you know, and I was laughing, and I'm pulling it out and making fun, and I'm like, hey, you like my knife? So at the end of the trip, I gave it to him. So you can give specific stuff to specific people, but the majority of stuff, like I left, I leave, I always bring clothes that I know I'm going to leave.

Mostly, pretty much wherever I travel in this kind of countries, I always leave my boots, I leave the equipment, we left all the saddles. They decide, so then this time when we went, they already had some saddles, so we just brought more, and I brought a ton of pads. I sent a bunch of pads over and a bunch of bridles.

Lindsay: You know, it sounds like something like, I know from English people, we have a pad hoarding tech, like, problem. Right. It's like, I own one saddle, but I have 32 pads. Yeah. And every color of the rainbow. Right. It's almost like, just. It's okay. Find the ones that you're willing to part with and, you know, your next trip to Mongolia.

Steve: Yes. Well, here's a, here's a plug for Begin Again. They gave us a saddle to take over. They gave us saddle pads. You know, we, we, we purchased a bunch of them, but they were more than, than wonderful in helping us out.

Lindsay: Great organization. Yeah. Oh, it's great. Yes. Awesome. That's good to hear. Yeah. Yeah. So, if somebody is Thinking in the next year or two that this might be an option.

Are you guys for higher? How does that work? 

Steve: So for, for my brother to do it, it would have to be a group of four or more to make it profitable on our end, obviously. Cause it's, it's business, right? It's a business. So four people, he would probably break even. Right. So if you wanted to go with four people, you could call them up and say, Hey, I've got four people.

We want to go to Mongolia. You know if that was a case he might say hey Steve Do you want to go to Mongolia? And I'd be like, yep, I'm in so he might send me instead right and He would set up, you know, you could say I wanted a hard trip So this last one they did they the one we did for 200 miles the first time they did a hundred miles this time So what they did is they rode in a van a little bit further up and then got on the horses because we rode through country A city or kind of populated, you were, you were suburbing it.

Yeah, and they drove out of that and then rode where it was maybe more beautiful. So they didn't, they didn't go quite as long. But I would say you want to give yourself a two weeks in the country to make it worth your time and your money that you're spending. Once you get there, it's not expensive. You know, ground costs, I don't know, you know, what we pay, but it's, it's, you know, our guide, I think.

We gave them a, you always, so where they make their money is on the tips, right? So our guide, as a trail guide, I know this. Yes, exactly. I lived off my tips. Yeah, exactly. So I think we paid him 50 a day, which is more than he usually gets, and then the assistant horse guy got like 10 a day, the cook got, you know, so it breaks down.

But if you take a group of four, it's, it's cheaper if you take a bigger group. 

Lindsay: So you just mentioned a cook and, you know, assistant guides. Right. How many, So, as a party, say you're a party of five or six that went over there, how many people did you have with you for that trip? 

Steve: So the last time we went to the Eagle Hunters, we had N.

A. who was our translator, and then Sultan and Norka, Norka was the camel guy, and Sultan was the horse guy, and that was it. So it was just three people. And you know, you've got your translator, and you've got people that know the horses and the camels. You know, and then, you know, they, they know how to cook.

 It was never, you know a big deal as far as, you know, who was going to cook and who was going to do what. Yeah. Oh, you should go. Everybody should go. And you should go before it's ruined.

Lindsay: Yeah. That's the scary part is you know, half of our. Canada burned to the ground last year, practically. We got, San Diego's under water.

What was the last time they saw that? The weather is going nuts, and so is the poli the political systems for every place, and that's terrifying. 

Steve: And the same is true in Mongolia, because Mongolia has, I believe it's, I don't know if it's number one, but their coal in the ground is, when they grade coal, you know, it's the best grade of coal, so China wants their coal.

They have Oh gosh, that would ruin all of that. They have all kinds of minerals. All kinds, all over the country. So, there's a lot of corruption in the government. And it's a big issue as far as trying to keep the nomadic life versus how are they going to survive as a people. Yeah. They're very well educated.

I think it's like 80 or 95 percent literacy rate. Really? They educate their kids. They, yeah. It's very interesting. Yeah. 

Lindsay: Huh. That I would not have guessed for some reason, especially on a nomadic lifestyle.

Steve: Right. So what they do is they send their kids during the summer, or the winter, during the school year, they go to school in the towns, and then in the summers they come back out and do the nomadic thing.

So kind of like, they board their kids? They board their kids, yeah. Yep. Just so they have An education. 

Lindsay: That's amazing. That's a sacrifice. 

Steve: It is a sacrifice, yeah. 

Lindsay: What is the flight path you guys take to get there?

Steve: I gotta think. We flew to South Korea. Yeah, we flew to South Korea and then South to Korea.

So, we flew from here, I think, to maybe New York City or Toronto. No, we flew out of Toronto. So, we flew from Toronto to South Korea. It's a straight flight? I think, maybe not. We might have stopped somewhere in the middle there. But I know we ended up in South Korea because we spent a day in South Korea, which is highly recommended as well.

Because there's palaces and place, cool places to see there. You got K pop. And that, yeah, there you go. That's right. You can dance all you want. There you go. Just go for a party, Gangnam style. We flew to Ulaanbaatar and then we flew from there to Saksay, which is up in the northwestern corner. But we, also from Ulaanbaatar you can take a car to Tussling and do a tour from there.

Lindsay: Fascinating. So, yeah. You see, you were terrified of the sheet that I brought. I know. And you realize you've hit everything on this one. See, look at that. You, you, you did great. We're, we're pretty much ready to wrap this up. So what, now that you're home, you've gone through this twice, what's your favorite takeaway of it?

What's your most cherished memory that you have? 

Steve: When I travel, sometimes when I was younger, like I, I've been to Africa, I, I've climbed Kilimanjaro three times. And when I went over the first time, my goal was to climb the mountain, to get to the top. Once I got off the mountain, and had been with people in Africa for almost three weeks there again, they became my friends.

And when I look back on it, it was, I would have been just as happy if I never got to the top of that mountain. And Mongolia is the same way. The first trip I was there, because it had been such a lifelong dream. So, picture if you will, we're sitting in the ger of Shidre, who doesn't speak any English.

We're staying in his ger right outside of town for the last night. We went into town, I rode on the back of a moped to the, to the butcher shop. He bought all kinds of meat, brought it back, cooked it up, I went riding with his son off up this hill and raced down back. And so after dinner, we all sat around, and, you know, Rick had everybody go around and share, you know, what they liked about the trip, what they, you know, liked about being in Mongolia.

And when it got to me, I started crying. You're not an emotional man. I'm pretty emotional anyway. People see me cry all the time. And it was one of those experiences, and it was the people. So even Even though I didn't speak Mongolian, by the end I knew a couple little phrases, but even though I didn't, we became friends.

Lindsay: I can tell because you've readily named off these people like they were brothers. 

Steve: Oh yeah, and that's what it is. 

Lindsay: You don't even hesitate or even attempt to go, oh, what was that guy's name? 

Steve: No, no, you, you, you really get to be friends. You, you laugh, you joke, you race horses. You jump off and on the horse, you goof around and for me, when I travel, I think, pretty much everywhere I've traveled, but the kindness.

And a really, really good example is, I have a, I always travel with them because it's a great conversation starter, they're called kendamas, and it's basically, you know the old ball and a cup? Yeah. That you flip around? Yeah. Well, a kendama has got a point on one end and two cups on the side and one on the bottom.

We were this whole trip. I broke it out. So we're on the horses at first. We're doing it at a walk, right? We're trying to do it land in the cup, land in the cup, and then I pass it off, and Salton would do it, then Norka would do it, and we'd laugh. So then we got to do it at a trot. So now we're trying to get it on these things at a trot.

Then we, of course, we tried to do it at canter and a gallop. The whole time we're doing this, we're just having a great time with it. Towards the end of the trip, Salton didn't have any kids and Norka had his family. And and he had a baby, his kids were young. So, I gave the kendama to Sultan, because we had, he and I had messed around with it the most.

And without even thinking, he turned around, and it's fun to have something that you like, right? And, he immediately said, oh, Norka should have this because he has children. And, I think that encapsulates the selflessness. And, so, what I take away from that, That's how I want to live my life, right? I want to be selfless.

I want to help people just because I want to give away. When I was in Cuba, we were at a sugar plantation and you go and they do a coffee kind of thing. And the guy sings a song and he's beating the thing. And, you know, and they don't have a lot of money in Cuba. I had this necklace that my sister in law gave me.

It was beautiful necklace, sterling silver. And it was the man in the maze. I don't know if you've ever seen that. It's an Anasazi, or, from Southwest. And it's basically got the, the Indian native little figure, and it's a maze. And it's, I call it the man in the maze, cause it's, you know, and it could mean anything, right?

Journey in life, journey, whatever. And there's a lot of speculation on what it really means. To me, it's like your journey in life, right? So, whatever moved me, I took it off and I gave it to him. And, to give something That means so much to you is an incredible experience as opposed to just, I'm going to bring an extra pair of shoes and I'm going to give them away.

Or to toss money at somebody. Or to toss money. Yeah. And so, and I told him, I said, here's the deal, and I started crying, he started crying, he hugged me, and I told him, I said, you can't sell this. I said, you can give it away, you can trade it, but you can't sell it. And he understood, yeah, I had a translator.

And then I literally, we had horses there. I got on the horse and I took off because I'm like crying my eyes out. I'm like, yep, I'm going! I'm going! So, yeah, right? This has not been a theme. No, I know, right? So I, I take off. That was four years ago. My brother went down this last year.

And they went to the same place. And the guy got all excited. And he went and got it and showed him that he still had it. Oh. And, and those kinds of moments that 

Lindsay: I can see why you get teary eyed. 

Steve: Yeah. Oh, yeah, I can see it It's and and that's why we travel right because we hear all these bad things about all these countries and to travel and see the people Not the government is incredible 

Lindsay: That that's definitely the way to do it.

So You 

Steve: brother 

Lindsay: Horseback riding there male dominated, horseback riding here, fairly female dominate, dominated. How do they handle women? 

Steve: Girls ride. They do? They, yep. And when you get, the more rural you get, they'll jump on a horse and they go too. Not as much as the boys. The boys are usually the ones that are doing the, I mean they're pretty, I mean they're chores.

Boys are boys. Boys are boys, right. So, it's not anything that's out there, but like the Eagle Hunters was very male, that was it. And now there's more, more than one or two women that are doing eagle hunting because now they're realizing they want to keep their tradition of eagle hunting alive,, more than they care about who's doing it.

Tradition. Tradition. And so it's, it's changing for the better, obviously. And, you know, it's, it's an amazing, amazing country. And the way to see it is on horseback. 

Lindsay: Steve, I have been flabbergasted. I, I knew I had to talk to you and I'm so thankful that you agreed to that. And, and can't wait to get you back into the saddle.

And for those that don't know, Steve and I met each other on a whim through us wankers, through a driving horse and this beautiful little horse Zorro there. And, you're about just as crazy as I am and I love it. 

Steve: And I'm having a great time and it's fun to meet. It's fun to meet you and I've been listening to your podcasts like all the time.

So they're a lot of fun. 

Lindsay: I appreciate it. Thank you so much tonight. And we'll meet you in the show ring this year. 

Steve: Oh yeah, bring it on baby. We're going fast. Zoom, zoom. Are you stepping up? I was thinking maybe you're stepping up. Yeah, we'll see what happens in the canner world. I like it. We might we might do that 

Lindsay: Awesome.

Thank you. You 

Steve: have yourself. Thanks for having me. Thanks for dinner. You're welcome. Anybody that wants to go with lindsay She'll buy you dinner if you talk to her 

Lindsay: It's true Dinner drink. This is time now 

Steve: Thanks, 

Lindsay: lindsay, you're welcome 

Steve: night

Thank you guys for joining in on Steve’s adventure.  I’ll put links to Pack Paddle and Ski in the show notes along with a Youtube video Steve made of his last trip there with the Eagle hunters.  The First 4 min of the video is of a local throat singer who is fascinating to listen to but if you want to get into the photos and short video’s of the trip itself start at 4:50 mark. 

If you found the content of this podcast interesting (or not) please take a moment to Share, follow, subscribe and leave a review.  It’s what helps keep me motivated to continue making new episodes.

Until Next time, make sure you respect the trail, wear a helmet and leave no trace at your trailer site. Happy Trails